In this one-off special edition, the Leaked Lunch podcast becomes the Leaked Zoom call podcast to overcome the geographic challenges of interviewing Erik Townsend of Macro Voices.
We discuss everything from selective bias in the media and market structure issues to resource challenges and how media corruption really works. The conversation was recorded on November 22.
Brought to you in association with Haya, the pseudonymous whistleblowing app.
00:00 On Izabella’s debate regarding the trustworthiness of media and independent media.
00:56 Erik Townsend’s introduction, on selling his software business in 1998 and retiring at 33. Then on starting his hedge fund and the podcast Macro Voices.
04:20 On the state of media in the West, and an anecdote regarding a journalist who manipulated a story he provided – on their lack of interest in the truth, according to Townsend.
09:00 On the hidden agenda and corruption of journalism and the media, and how they get manipulated by financial actors.
11:00 On journalists during the 2003 invasion of Iraq.
12:10 On the importance of independent journalism and Glenn Greenwald.
14:50 On the decline of journalistic quality and integrity over the last decade. And how the press modified stories and expert testimony during the COVID-19 crisis, with the efficacy of Hydroxychloroquine with zinc to treat Covid as an example.
22:30 On the road to Press serfdom – the danger of an illusory free press.
25:00 Izabella on the tendency for the press and journalists to willingly self-censor when confronted with controversial subjects.
27:20 Townsend on the example of the COVID-19 lab leak hypothesis and how this hypothesis was censored early on. Izabella chimes in on her own experience regarding gain-of-function research while at FT Alphaville.
36:30 Izabella on the problem with a journalistic career – how increasing professionalisation, ‘access journalism’, or ‘going native’ automatically leads a journalist to less honesty and independence on paper.
38:30 Moving on to coverage of the Ukraine war.
41:05 Izabella on the issues regarding reporting is about media structure. How fear of sticking their heads above the parapet and damaging their reputation means stories don’t get covered.
44:00 On the silence regarding the possibility of Western involvement in the explosion of the Nord Stream pipelines.
48:00 On the difficulty of getting the difficult truth out as a journalist – with the example of how fiction writers in Poland were freer to express difficult truths than non-fiction writers. How media consumers should learn to read between the lines of a journalistic piece.
51:00 On the disappearance of presenting two sides of a matter versus a one-sided take.
55:00 On the homogeneity of the intelligentsia class and its political skew. Izabella believes the financialisation of politics has been replaced by the politicisation of finance, making coverage of these financial issues much harder. Townsend on the issues with the lack of financial education by the mainstream media.
59:00 On the conflict of interests presented by journalists’ low pay vis a vis their manipulation by third parties, such as offers to conduct private intelligence work, or payments by Wirecard and FTX. On how ideally independent media and legacy media should balance each other out.
1:07:45 Izabella on the increasing prevalence of WhatsApp groups in journalistic circles, the power of cliques. Townsend on the lack of disclosure towards listeners in independent media, such as guests paying to appear on podcasts – but how independent media can serve to keep the mainstream honest.
1:10:48 Townsend on media silence surrounding the turn-around in the conflict between Biden and MBS, regarding the about-face by the Biden administration regarding MBS’s immunity for the murder of Khashoggi.
1:12:20 Izabella’s take on what it means to be a brave journalist; it’s sticking to your stories when things are tough that shows character. On the difficulty on maintaining an open perspective in this day and age.
1:15:30 On the normalisation of lies and the impact of social media on today’s toxic media narratives, and the potential impact of the intelligence services on news reporting.
1:17:25 Izabella asks if some censorship is ever justified. Townsend believes censorship is never productive. Even in the case of a war, Townsend believes, enemy propaganda should see the light of day to encourage your society’s disapproval – but suppression is never effective, he believes. On how individuals have a civic duty to understand both sides of the article, and how this perspective has been discredited in favour of selecting one side of the story.
1:24:30 On the difficulties of reporting on intelligence services and their abuses of individuals’ data. Izabella on how under the Iron Curtain the intelligence services were not seen in as positive a light as they are today in the West.
1:27:30 Townsend on the see-saw of cycles of information through history. How some actions in the present are looked upon unfavourably after the fact – like Japanese internment camps in WW2 and McCarthyism. Townsend believes we’re in the 2nd McCarthy era, but this time the liberals have taken the hard line.
